Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 9 Dec 91 Volume 91 : Issue 648 Today's Topics: Atari 520ST Systems for sale: $350 Atari Chicago Show...if you want details Mail me. Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? (3 msgs) Atari Transputer System? Avatex + TT030 modem problem (again) DC? FOR SALE (really this time), ATARI DTP SYSTEM (major cool stuff) General comparisons New Mouse overscan PROFESSIONAL MIDI SEQUENCING PACKAGE FOR THE ATARI ST FOR SALE! Saving paper SUMMARY to "HELP: Mouse is flaky." WIZARD OF WAR Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 9 Dec 91 18:42:44 GMT From: agate!darkstar!ucsco!sandy47@ames.arpa (Larry McElhiney) Subject: Atari 520ST Systems for sale: $350 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've decide to sell my 2 spare Atari 520ST Mono systems which have been mainly used (lightly) for Midi activities. Details as follows: Atari 520ST Monochrome System (2ea.) (very good condition) -Atari 520ST computer w/power supply, mouse, manual -Atari SM124 Monochrome Monitor w/power cord, cable, manual -Atari SF354 Single Sided Floppy w/power supply, cable, manual Price: $350 per system + shipping costs Please contact me by email reply to this article or at: mchome!mack@ucscc.ucsc.edu Larry McElhiney (408) 426-5858 x358 ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 11:05:06 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!gate.oxy.edu!oxy!leavitt@arizona.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) Subject: Atari Chicago Show...if you want details Mail me. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm thinking about going Atari, and selling my 286... what're the going prices for the TT, MEGA/STE, 1040ST, and 520ST? My friend's Amiga impressed me, but I get the sense that the Atari is cheaper... besides, being a former TI 99/4A owner, I like really unconventional computers. T. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 13:31:25 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!bcc.ac.uk!ucacmsu@uunet.uu.net (Mr Stephen R Usher) Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <10015@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes: >In article <1mtq-nm@rpi.edu> borres@aix.rpi.edu (Steven D. Borrelli) writes: >>In article <1991Dec7.152705.20429@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jppg9764@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Paul Pietrzak) writes: STUFF DELETED > >Also, other people have questioned my concerns over adding >third party peripherals to the TT/ASV. They seem to think that >just because a device is a SCSI device it will run on the TT/ASV. >Well, electrically and hardware wise it should attach to the TT >just fine. But what about the ASV's SCSI device driver? Can the >released drivers in the ASV kernal handle any or all third party >SCSI devices? Can it handle any make or brand of WORM drive? >Can it handle the Sony 5.25 SMO optical read/write drive? Or the >newer Sony 3.5 SMO optical drive? Or the new Digital Audio Tape >1.3/2.2 GIGABYTE tape drives? It would seem to me that even though >these are all SCSI devices, special ASV device drivers would be >required for each. and then the question becomes, who is going >to provide these device drivers? Heck, companies such as Word Perfect >are refusing to upgrade their existing ST/TT products even now. Do >you think that they will go out of their way to write ASV unique >device drivers? I think not!! Can an ordinary ASV developer >write his own drivers? Well, if the kernal is like most AT&T >kernals you have to rebuild the entire kernal to add new device >drivers. Hence you need source code to the entire ASV kernal, >which I don't think AT&T would Atari Corp to give out for free!! >AT&T source code licenses can cost upwards of $50,000.00 USA$!! > ASV IS AT&T Unix SYSVrel4! ANY SYSVr4 driver will compile into the kernel and work.. that's what the standard for SYSVr4 was written for! > >So, for all of these reasons I don't believe that the TT/ASV is >"special" enough to survive. In fact, I predict now, for one >and all to read, that the TT/ASV will NEVER been released as >more then a "Developer" package for the present incarnation of >the TT hardware. Maybe in 1993 or 1994 when the rumored 68040 >super-TT comes out it will be released. But not for the present >TT hardware. > >these are just my views. I for one would love to buy a TT/ASV >because I really need/want a good Motif based X Windows workstation. >But I want color and I want support. Neither of which Atari can >provide. I plan to wait until Spring when the next version of >A/UX comes out. A/UX 2.01 doesn't run on the new Mac Quadra 700 >machines (see even Apple makes blunders!!). But A/UX version 3.0 >will fix that. And A/UX supports color as well as ll of the normal >Mac peripherals. We shall see. > > >-- >Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org >CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert Steve -- Addresses:- JANET:- ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or susher@uk.ac.csm Internet:- ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or susher@csm.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 18:41:32 GMT From: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!mc4c+@cs.roch ester.edu (Mark Choi) Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu On 08-Dec-91 in Re: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any o.. user Richard Covert@cactus.or writes: >Why are these other machine more compatible? Simply because they have been >out longer then ASV. ASV is still in the post-beta "developer" stage >so there are fewer ASV users. Thus fewer GNU programs have been >ported to it. Thus, the compatibility factor is still largely unknown. >You can't say how compatible ASV is with MOTIF/Sun Open Look/GNU >sw until you get a released ASV to use. And ASV still hassn't been >released as a commerical, off the shelf, product!! Although at the present price, I think that the TT/ASV is a class A ripoff, some one needs to take a course in logic here. This is the most rediculous argument I have ever heard. He disproves his own conclusions with his premise, and then touts it as a proof. On 08-Dec-91 in Re: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any o.. user Richard Covert@cactus.or writes: >Second, for the same dollars can you buy someone else's UNIX box. >Since you can't run TOS/GEM programs from within an X Windows >window, owning previous GEM programs is no reason to buy a TT/ASV. AS you are not forced to run UNIX, and can boot up in TOS, and port the deata files over to UNIX, YES IT IS. On 08-Dec-91 in Re: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any o.. user Richard Covert@cactus.or writes: >Also, other people have questioned my concerns over adding >third party peripherals to the TT/ASV. They seem to think that >just because a device is a SCSI device it will run on the TT/ASV. >Well, electrically and hardware wise it should attach to the TT >just fine. But what about the ASV's SCSI device driver? Can the >released drivers in the ASV kernal handle any or all third party >SCSI devices? Can it handle any make or brand of WORM drive? >Can it handle the Sony 5.25 SMO optical read/write drive? Or the >newer Sony 3.5 SMO optical drive? Or the new Digital Audio Tape >1.3/2.2 GIGABYTE tape drives? It would seem to me that even though >these are all SCSI devices, special ASV device drivers would be >required for each. and then the question becomes, who is going >to provide these device drivers? Heck, companies such as Word Perfect >are refusing to upgrade their existing ST/TT products even now. Do >you think that they will go out of their way to write ASV unique >device drivers? I think not!! Can an ordinary ASV developer >write his own drivers? Well, if the kernal is like most AT&T >kernals you have to rebuild the entire kernal to add new device >drivers. Hence you need source code to the entire ASV kernal, >which I don't think AT&T would Atari Corp to give out for free!! >AT&T source code licenses can cost upwards of $50,000.00 USA$!! man, someone is asleep at the wheel. If it is indeed binary compatible with sysVr4, then ANY sysVr4 driver will work. Period. If it is not, then it is garbage. But that is not what you are trying to say. You should try to better understand the subject of your posting before you open your mouth, or move your fingers, in this case. I must say, I would never buy a TT unless the price were cut in half, but to make a cogent argument, the facts have to be corect, as well as the logic, both of which are lacking here. There are many good reasons NOT to buy a TT/ASV, none of which are presented here. mark ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 18:59:47 GMT From: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!mc4c+@cs.roch ester.edu (Mark Choi) Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu At least here in the US, NeXT is cheaper than TT/ASV IT JUST IS. mark ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 15:46:02 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!yorkohm!minster!mjl-b@uunet.uu.net Subject: Atari Transputer System? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Dec07.134321.6094@demon.co.uk> Iain Laskey writes: >The OS was an existing multitasking one for transputers, right now the name >escapes me! It's called Helios, and is still available from Perihelion Software (not to be confused with Perihelion Hardware, which was bought by Atari). > ############################### > # Iain R Laskey # > # ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk # > ############################### Mathew | Mathew Lodge | "Baldrick, are the words 'I have a cunning plan' | | mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk | heading towards this conversation with ill | | Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet | deserved confidence?" -- Blackadder III | ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 18:21:24 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!sander@arizona.edu (Scott D Anderson) Subject: Avatex + TT030 modem problem (again) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Some time ago (maybe two weeks) I posted here about a problem with my modem and my TT030. Some kind user replied that it could very well be that my cables had crossed wires. Unfortunately, I have lost the response :( Could that same user (or another) please send me their corrected cable pin-outs (achieved through use of a breakout box) ? Thanks in advance, Scott Anderson ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 18:08:20 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!galileo.cc.ro chester.edu!uhura.cc.rochester.edu!lchd_ss@arizona.edu (Ling Cherd Ho) Subject: DC? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <199790@unix.cis.pitt.edu> slsst11@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Sharon L Skwara) writes: > >re: doesn't 1st word do that? > > I dunno, but it would be nice to pop open a window in ANY program and do >ALL typing via mouse - who would need a keyboard except for rare cases? >It could be an ACC from the menu, or an AUTO program accessible by say >a "double-click" on the right button, or keyboard press. Sure would be nice >to do all this modeming without ever touching the keyboard. > > slsst11@unix.cis.pitt.edu I don't think using the mouse to replace the keyboard to enter text will make life more comfortable. But what I have experience is that it is useful when you are sitting beside a poor typist typing on the computer and you can use the mouse to quickly amend his mistakes. .. Ling Cherd . ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 15:09:12 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs. ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler) Subject: FOR SALE (really this time), ATARI DTP SYSTEM (major cool stuff) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I know I've put this stuff up for sale before, but this time I'm REALLY REALLY doing it... The amounts below are, I believe, extremely reasonable. If anybody is interested in EVERYTHING below, I will take $140 off the price and sell it all to you for $2850. Any reasonable offer will be considered, but I will probably wait at least a week if the offers are too far below what I would like to get (to see if anyone wants to offer more). I have never shipped COD before. Does anyone know how this is done? Ok, here is what I have for sale: I would Like to Get this much $: Mega 2+2 with; Isaac card (1024*768*16 colors) AdSpeed (16/8 mhz card) 4 megs ram TOS 1.4 Best Power Supply Overscan Extra shielding for Spectre GCR Extra Internal Fan $1000 ISAAC card Seperately $400 ($599 new) MEGA 2+2 as above, without ISAAC $700 2 Complete 50 meg ICD hard drive systems 28millisecond drives, everything you need is here to plug in. These are the ICD FAST drives! $350 each Migraph Handscanner with Touchup $275 Spectre GCR with ROMS! (latest software) $350 1024*768 NON-INTERLACED multisynch monitor (for use with ISAAC or whatever else you have that can use it) $400 SM124 MONO Monitor $75 Track Ball $25 Calamus (latest version before SL) $50 Calamus Outline Art $50 Calamus font Editor $25 Cherry Fonts Times & Garamond $10 each Neodesk 3.0 $15 Quick ST 2.0 $5 In all cases you pay shipping! I will probably be sending everything COD, unless someone has a better suggestion. Of note is that I don't have many of the original boxes, I simply did not have room to keep them. I'll purchase some nice boxes and padding to ship everything in though, so you will get some sort of nice box to clutter your house up with. Everything is in good condition and works well. I can ship the Hard Drives as are, or I can reformat them. Anyone who buys the ISAAC card will get a set of disks which includes my settup (to save them the hassel of getting it going themselves, what a pain...) Also, If anyone needs support for whatever they buy, I intend to stick around for a while on comp.sys.atari.st, OR you can e-mail me. Either way, you get support (for Atari?... WOW!) Respond ASAP, I'm in a slight hurry, and may be inclined to sell the items to the first person who offers me enough... You may call me at (614)-297-7967 as well. By the way, you really should read my cool .sig file ;-) - David Butler - dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -Kaleidoscope woman in rhinestoned levi's jeans dancing in the sunset sketching day's last scene- - Willie Phoenix - ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 16:38:20 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio -state.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!nmsu!dewey.NMSU.Edu@arizona.edu (LELAND) Subject: General comparisons To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello! I have been reading about some of the nasty posts you Atari guys have been getting from some of the Amiga and other lists. I for one would like to apologize for them, though I haven't written any myself. I've never understood the rivalry between various computer systems, and would hope that people in both our communities would have the sense to wise up. Neither Commodore nor Atari have ever been noted for their brilliant marketing. You have Jack Tramiel and we have Irving Gould. What a combination! Between the two of them they almost have a whole brain. Anyway, I for one would be interested in hearing about what is new and interesting coming out for the ST. I understand Atari has implimented a blitter chip on their new 68030 machines. Is this true? How does it work, and who is writing programs that take advantage of it? Thanks in advance, Darrell Leland ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 15:32:36 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!sersun1!okes@uunet.uu.net (Oke S) Subject: New Mouse To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've been using a Genius Mouse for the last 2 years since my Atari model gave up, and wouldn't use any other. Simon. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 13:40:19 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!glasgow!bru-cc!ma90dts@uunet.uu.net (David T Smith) Subject: overscan To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Is there anyone out there who has got sources on how to display spectrum 512 images in overscan? I have just got hold of the overscan demos and one of the demos does this but it is not compatible with the STE. Is the extended spectrum 512 viewer that is avaliable in the public domain compatible with the STE? Does it work in full overscan ie knocks out the side boarders as well as the top and bottom. Does it come with sources so you can display your own spectrum pics, in overscan. Would anyone be intereted in me posting the fullscreen construction kit to BART? This displays pictures in overscan but only in 16 colours hence the questions about a spectrum 512 compatible one. Talking about spectrum is there a version that is capable of running at 50Hz as the only copy I,ve seen works at 60Hz only and does it fully support the STE,s 4096 colour palette? Thanks Dave Smith ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 15:19:23 GMT From: aurs01!whitcomb@mcnc.org (Jonathan Whitcomb) Subject: PROFESSIONAL MIDI SEQUENCING PACKAGE FOR THE ATARI ST FOR SALE! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <692065389.0@tdkt.kksys> Chuck.Zwicky@tdkt.kksys.com (Chuck Zwicky) writes: > > -------------------------------SOFTWARE------------------------------ > --------------------------SEQUENCING-PACKAGE------------------------- > -------------------------------FOR SALE------------------------------ > > PACKAGE INCLUDES: > +++++++++++++ Dr. T's KCS LEVEL II SEQUENCER +++++++++++++ > MPE -the MULTIPLE PROGRAM ENVIRONMENT- > PVG - the PROGRAMMABLE VARIATIONS GENERATOR & MASTER EDITOR > TIGER- The Interactive Graphical Editor! > QUICKSCORE- MUSICAL NOTATION AND SCORING PROGRAM/MODULE > ++++++++++++++++++THE PHANTOM SMPTE INTERFACE+++++++++++++++++++ > ******************************************************************* > THIS PACKAGE IS WORTH OVER $800! I WILL SELL IT TO YOU FOR $400! > ******************************************************************* ~~~~ Once again, I'll point out that Dr.T's KCS Omega package (which is an upgraded version of KCS Level II with LOTS more features and no copy protection) lists at $450, and the Phantom SMPTE interface lists for $250. That's a total LIST price of $700. Both of these products can be had for much less (Dr. T's was selling the Phantom direct for under $100 a few months ago). If you bought this package and wanted to upgrade to KCS Omega it would cost you $75, so you'd end up paying $475 total. You can get a brand new version of KCS Omega and the Phantom for around the same price or less. I'm not trying to undermine Chuck's sale... this is a great sequencing package (I use KCS Omega myself and love it). I just don't see where he gets off saying that the package is worth $800. ********************************************************************** Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: Alcatel Network Systems Delphi: JBWHIT Raleigh, NC GEnie: J.WHITCOMB3 ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 14:31:45 GMT From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!funic!nic.funet.fi!lahtinen@uunet.uu.net (Kimmo Lahtinen) Subject: Saving paper To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In atari.archive.umich.edu and nic.funet.fi there is a package called idea_31.lzh It is in atari/print* . And it saves paper by printing with small letters upto 9 columns. It is a German shareware with English documentation. There is also some handy utilies like chamelion which can be used to load and sometimes unload ACCessories. Please support shareware authors. -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kimmo Lahtinen E-Mail : lahtinen@gideon.fmi.fi or Finnish Meteorological Institute kimmo@field.fi Phone : +358 0 758 1322 Possessed by a Spirit G3 Fax : +358 0 758 1396 ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 11:36:07 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!jarthur .claremont.edu!cliu@arizona.edu (Corey Liu) Subject: SUMMARY to "HELP: Mouse is flaky." To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I want to thank everybody who replied to my post about my flaky mouse (Atari original)! I tried to respond to everyone via e-mail. I apologize if I missed anybody. Four dominant suggestions were made as to what might be wrong with my mouse. Let me try to summarize. 1. Dirty mouse. Extensive mouse use over time will result in the roller ball picking up dust and trapping it inside the mouse. This can disrupt smooth operation of the mouse ball rollers, or block the light path for the motion sensor photodiodes. A good cleaning of the mouse is the best solution to this problem. Best results are obtained if you can open the mouse up to get at the rollers more easily (a small tweezers can help a lot). 2. Bad cable connection. Wire fatigue can occur in the mouse cable. This most likely happens around the area where the cable enters the mouse. Diagnosiong this as the problem is usually a matter of jiggling wire while moving the mouse to see it the motion of the pointer is affected. Fixing this is a matter of locating the bad area and cutting that section of cable out. Shortening the mouse cord a bit won't hurt it. 3. Mouse virus. There exists a virus that will reverse movements of the mouse pointer (up=down, right=left, etc.). VKILLER at atari.archive was suggested as the program to use for virus scanning. 4. Dead photodiode. The Atari mouse works on the principle of spinning rollers attached to circular plates with regular holes cut in them. Photodiodes are sandwiched arond the plates. When the rollers spin, light is detected through the passing holes. Thus, the faster you move your mouse, the faster the pulses of light through the holes, tranlating to faster pointer motion on you screen. If a photodiode dies, this most likely results in a loss of directional motion. This problem does not seem to be an easy fix. Obtaining a new mouse seems to be the best bet. My problem seems to lie with the dead photodiode suggestions. The symptoms (gradual decay of upward motion over a weeks time) seem to match this theory the best. Plus, I cleaned my mouse, and jiggled the cord, both of which accomplished nothing. The possibility of a virus causing my mouse problems was eliminated straight off when I borrowed my friend's trak-ball and the problem disappeared. So, I am essentially in the market for a mouse now. The Golden Image mouse has received the most recommendations. Others receiving votes were the new-style Atari mice, the Beetle mouse, a very-simple Amiga mouse conversion, and slightly more involved convertion of MS-DOS style mice. Anything else out there worth looking in to? Once again, thanks to everyone out there who helped me out. I really appreciated it. Aloha, Corey ---------------------------------------------------------- "This must be the place I waited years to leave." - P.S.B. Corey Liu (__) cliu@jarthur.claremont.edu Harvey Mudd College |oo| cliu@jarthur.uucp Claremont, CA \/--Moo! cliu@jarthur.bitnet ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 11:41:08 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.co lumbia.edu!ira.uka.de!uka!uka!newsadm@arizona.edu (|S| Florian Dingler) Subject: WIZARD OF WAR To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi there out in the world! After reprogramming the whole variable-section (about 18 hours during last weekend) I was able to compile the source code successfully. This morning, after a rather sleepness night, I added some features which make the monsters more aggresive (the game gets harder altogether). I ARCed and UUEed it and sent it to atari.archive. Hope that it arrived there. Can anyone sent me the email-address of the person who is responsible for comp.sys.atari.binaries ? Thank you. So, get the prerelease and test it. Tell me how you like it. The main release will be out somewhere around January. And have a nice X-mas. f. P.S. I'll never use GF*-Basic again. Horrible errors. Never again. Never. --[signature]-----------+------------------------------ Florian Dingler | S_DINGLER@irav1.ira.uka.de Litzenhardtstrasse 22 | UKDP@dkauni2.de W-7500 KARLSRUHE 1 +------------------------------ Tel.:(+49) 721-861216 | living to make history ... Fed. Rep. of Germany | ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************